What Would YOU Do? James' current 'schedule' goes as follows (most of the time)... he is up for the day anytime between 6:00-7:00am, but sometimes as late as 8:00am. He eats every 4 hours, and gets a little cereal in the morning, fruit in the afternoon, and veggies and fruit in the evening. He naps usually for about an hour in the morning, around 10:30-11:00. He may take another nap in the morning, but usually not. He then naps from about 2:00pm until 3:30-4:00pm. He is usually up then until bedtime, which is 8:30pm. He goes down to sleep no problem. He is then up every four hours (usually 12:30am, and 4:30am) to eat, and goes down no problem after that. (Unless he has gas, and he often has gas.) He's then up again for the day. This isn't a HORRIBLE schedule, but it isn't great either. What would you do if this was your kid? I have tried to let him cry - VERY briefly - but I couldn't handle it. It's too hard for me. I need a different approach to help him sleep better. Any suggested tactics?
Tuesday, May 1
W.W.Y.D.
What Would YOU Do? James' current 'schedule' goes as follows (most of the time)... he is up for the day anytime between 6:00-7:00am, but sometimes as late as 8:00am. He eats every 4 hours, and gets a little cereal in the morning, fruit in the afternoon, and veggies and fruit in the evening. He naps usually for about an hour in the morning, around 10:30-11:00. He may take another nap in the morning, but usually not. He then naps from about 2:00pm until 3:30-4:00pm. He is usually up then until bedtime, which is 8:30pm. He goes down to sleep no problem. He is then up every four hours (usually 12:30am, and 4:30am) to eat, and goes down no problem after that. (Unless he has gas, and he often has gas.) He's then up again for the day. This isn't a HORRIBLE schedule, but it isn't great either. What would you do if this was your kid? I have tried to let him cry - VERY briefly - but I couldn't handle it. It's too hard for me. I need a different approach to help him sleep better. Any suggested tactics?
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Heather - You can totally disagree with this, but I think 5 months is just a little too young to let him "cry it out". By the sounds of things you're listening to your instincts that say you don't feel right about it quite yet - yay for MOMFIDENCE!
I don't go by "what the book says" on pretty much anything, but I did wait until 7 months (they suggest anywhere between 6 and 9 to begin) to try it. I felt stronger to let him cry it out then as opposed 2 months earlier because in that 2 months it feels like there's a HUGE difference in terms of baby (who needs you for everything at 5 months) and the little boy (who's indepence at 7 months is really starting to show). Does that make sense?
That being said, Palmer had about an 8:30 bedtime in those days and about a 6:30 wake up time as well. I decided I was going to try to move his bedtime up by half hour increments (so 8 pm for about a week, then 7:30 the next and 7 the following - your increments might have to be longer depending how he takes to the change) since I figured if it was gradual he might just tack on another half hour of sleep instead of waking up a half hour earlier. And it worked!
The bonus of eventually getting bedtime at 7 pm was three-fold.
1. Nearly an extra 2 hours of "me time" or "hubby time" which was so wonderful - felt almost like it did before being a mom with mom responsabilities (not that I don't love being a mom because I do but everyone needs a break now and then!)
2. He'd get up at 11pm to feed when were just finishing getting ready for bed. The next feed was a 3am and the next at 7am when we'd all wake up. So instead of 2 feeds a night (12:30 and 4:30 when I was already fast asleep) there was only one when I was fast asleep (3am). What a difference it made in the sleep I got (it was better!) but it made such a difference in my day (not so exhausted!)
3. When it came time to eliminate the 11 pm feed (on our way to eliminating the 3 am feed eventually) I'd be awake enough to pop his soother in and rock him for a bit until he fell back asleep. What we found and so many people like Jamie have commented in the past is, it was habit, not hunger that was waking him. He really just wanted to be consoled which feeding had done for him for so many months, so although I wasn't feeding him I was filling that need for consoling. I'd put him back down once he was settled enough again.
Eventually he just didn't wake up out of "hunger" or consolement for the 11pm former feed, but still the 3pm. So we braved taking away the 3am the same way and there were definitely a few more tears involved (33 minutes the first night and 15 minutes the second night) But by the 3rd night - no tears and no wake up. If he woke up after that I'd go in, give him his soother and rock if necessary, but generally he'd fall back asleep on his own.
I hope this can work for you when the time is right. It's just what I know and who's to say it is "the way", certainly not me, though it did work for us. Sorry this was so long and I hope it makes sense.
Nicole - I LOVE this comment, thank you! I just appreciate having my "no-cry-it-out" instinct encouraged. I thought I was just a wimp. I think your idea sounds totally manageable. It makes complete sense. I think I may try it! I would still love to hear other's ideas too.
Hi Heather,
Wow he still doesnt sleep through the night?
Caleb was unusual. He slept 10 hrs by a month old. Not even kidding. He never woke up in the middle of the night unless he was sick...
Taite was a bit harder. Up until recently he would get up once at night. He'd go down around 10:30pm and wake up around 4:00am for the LONEGST time. Until this week. Now he goes to bed at 8pm and sleeps until 8 or 9am.
Now this might change the day he starts teething... because I do remember Caleb having a few issues w/ the teeth coming in (but he didnt get teeth until almost 7 months old!)..
The way though I began to ween Taite at night was to gradually reduce his 4am feeding.
I slowly chopped it down from 6 oz... to 5 oz... then from 5 oz to 4 oz... and eventually down to 2 oz!
Did he fuss?
YES.
He never really CRIED but you could tell he wanted more after just getting those few ounces. What I would do though was wait it out... put the pacifier in his mouth.. and he eventually fell asleep after about 2-5 minutes. He never screamed though. I cant take SCREAMING... or really hard crying...
But fussy-ness? Im good at ignoring that lol.
I also give him a cereal bottle at 8pm... thats his last bottle so it has to be a good one :-)
I put 3 scoops of the formula (6 oz) and 1 scoop of infant rice baby cereal.
I did this w/ Caleb as well.
Taite does great and has yet to have issues pooping. He has no problems with it at all.
I hope this helps!
Also I found once I put Taite in cloth diapers w/ a double stuffed cloth insert he sleeps better.. why? because he stays COMPLETELY dry.
Oh thats another thing. When Taite did get up at 4am I never EVER changed him. This woke up him.
Hope that helps...
Keep us posted.
Just be glad you dont have a two year old who needs you during those times James does nap ;-)
Although you do adjust.
BTW for James age I dont think he naps enough. But thats just me.
Taite naps like 5 times a day... and Caleb up until age 1 1\2 took 2 naps. Some days 3!
He was a napping KING!!!
oh and the way i took away the 10:30pm-11pm-ish feeding was to slowly move it back every night about 15 minutes each time. Eventually getting to 8pm
First of all, I'm loving the pics and videos! My kids know James by sight already and think he's awesome!
Back to your post...This seems long ago for me, but I do remember something about watering down Riker's middle of the night feed until all I was offering him was water. If he cried then when I tried to put him back down, we did a routine of going into his room to comfort him, but not pick him up again, after 1 minute, then 2 min, then 4 minutes...constantly doubling the time till he fell asleep. This way, he still knew that we were there, but we regulated how often we came in and slowly made the increments longer and longer. My disclaimer-I don't remember how old Riker was when we did this.
what we did with zach was put him down around 8, i think. i'd get him up to feed at 10, 10:30 before we went to bed. he would then sleep longer in the night. of course, my two kiddos have been pretty good sleepers, so it could have been coincidence :)
i love nicole's ideas - seems like an awesome plan!
and not to discourage you, but a friend of mine has a 14 month old who still doesn't sleep through the night...so it might be a while before he does. it's not uncommon at all. frustrating, yes!
Heather, Officially, babies are mature enough to cry it out after four months old. Some parents find that harder than others. If you can't handle it you'll have to find another strategy but it is definitely the fastest way. But sometimes it is hard to decide whether or not the baby has everything they need - that they're not in pain or hungry. Some babies take a long time to learn how to sleep through the night. Avery didn't sleep through the night (as in an eight hour stretch or longer) until she was 8 or 9 months old. Kieran is 11 months old and has slept through the night from time to time but still generally gets up for a night feeding. Sometimes all you can do is be patient and wait until they grow out of it. They all do eventually. Don't be discouraged by those people whose babies slept through the night practically since birth. Sometimes I have felt very judged by them as though I have done something wrong because my children were bad sleepers. Sometimes that's just the way it is.
I do agree with the suggestion of moving James' bedtime up earlier. It has worked for me great on several occasions! When my kids were waking up too early, moving their bedtime back by half an hour or an hour often helped them sleep longer. Many times babies who don't sleep long enough are actually just extremely overtired.
There are a lot of great books about sleep out there that cover a lot of case studies and can be helpful: "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child", "The No-Cry Sleep Solution" (may be good for you if you're not wanting to let James' cry), "The Happiest Baby on the Block" and many many others. Just go to amazon.ca and type "sleep" in the search box.
Anyway, I wish you lots of patience because that is really the best thing. I can totally relate because I have been really struggling with this frustration myself and my baby is 11 months old!!!! It can be soooo tiring. But you are doing a good job and this will pass.
"Wow he still doesnt sleep through the night?" - This was a totally rude, and uncalled for comment to make. Isn't it exactly comments like this that make you feel like a bad mom? Sorry Heather, I don't agree with that at all. Some babies just don't want to sleep as much as others do.
haha - that looks like a GREAT schedule to me!!!!
Kamryn didn't sleep through the nite until 9 1/2 months... i was still getting up 4-5 times a nite! she'd want a little of her bottle, or her soother.
it wasn't until i put water in the bottle at nite that she realized she didn't need it anymore.
i agree with the others who have said at FIVE months - it sounds like he's doing great...
i've learned that you just CANNOT compare your kids schedule to anyone else's or try to change it to what your friends think is "right". what works for me, works for ME! every kid is so different..sleep patterns and all.
take all comments with a grain of salt - take bits and pieces and make them your own...
love ya!
Sorry dear I have no advice. I have no idea where to begin with putting my son on a schedule. I'm sure I'll be calling for advice in a month.
aw.... Drea was just trying to help. I don't think that was rude at all, in fact, it was my reaction as well.
But like it's been said by many, every baby is different, and we can't help but go on what we know, from our babies. Mine slept through the night by now too... so I have no advice for you Heather : (
Maybe James will be an angel in the two-year-old phase, from all the time you're punching in now lol! and maybe us spoiled ones with sleeping babies will have tyrants! :O
wow - these are some long comments :)
I remember the health nurse saying that around 12lbs or 4 months it would be perfectly safe to eliminate the nighttime feeding. Taeya was pretty easy, in that all I had to do was give her a soother, and she was fine until the morning. i never had to let her cry it out. but when it comes to eliminating a feeding without a soother, i'm not sure.
i know i did a dream feed (got her up at 10/10:30) to feed her in the dark, and that was really easy to eliminate too - i just stopped it!
changing and cutting out taeya's feedings have never been a problem for me as she's easy going in that regard. but i would maybe suggest the pickup/put down method in the Baby Whisperer. I've heard that it really works to help babies sleep longer, and to eliminate feedings.
one other recommendation i would make would be to put james to bed earlier. at 5 months, taeya was still napping from 5-6 in the evening, then going to bed at 8. she couldn't last much longer than that. and when we first moved her to two naps, we found that while we wanted her up until 8 (so my husband could see her, as he works til 7), she was just so exhausted that we started putting her down at 7:30. she was then sleeping better at night, and longer in the morning!
My understanding is that with most babies, the more rested they are, the more soundly they sleep. so if you try to prevent overstimulating james during the day, especially in the evening by keeping him up too long, it may really help him to sleep more soundly.
there is a good chance he's waking out of habit for night time feedings. if he's waking the same time every night, i would say it's a habit. if it's during different times, he needs it, but may just need more during the day, so he doesn't need it at night.
ok, so my comment was long too. sorry! hope it helps.
That anonymous commentor sounds exactly like the one that keeps parading around my blog leaving nothing BUT rude comments. Im so sick of it. I was just trying to tell heather what Ive done with my boys. I was in no way calling her a bad mother! and I was in no way calling her precious child WEIRD, BAD or anything you were thinking.
I am just amazed that so many children dont sleep through the night until they are a year or older... because I have never personally dealt with it.
I dont think its ANYONES fault. Its just every childs different.
So please stop assuming things and trying to stir up crap!
I apologize, I was not trying to make any big issues. I just thought that given the situation, Heather probably didn't need to hear people commenting about how they know nothing about what she is dealing with. Not getting sleep is hard, all moms probably know that feeling. I just wanted her to know that she is NOT alone.
Sounds like you're getting lots of good advice already!
Maybe instead of leaving him alone to cry in his crib, you could start by holding him, rocking him, giving him the soother when he wakes up for those night feedings. Even though you're still getting up you'll probably feel a sense of accomplishment if you can get him back to sleep without feeding him anything. Then eventually maybe you can just stand beside his crib when he wakes up, patting his back, shushing, etc. This kind of describes the "good night, sleep tight" method I posted about a few weeks ago. There is still crying involved, but you stay with your baby for reassurance and security.
Just a thought. I'm realizing more and more how many different approaches there are to parenting issues, so the default solution should always be your own mom instincts :)
Every few weeks I peek in here to see what's going on with The James. Wicked cute little dude.
Once in awhile, I'll read the comments, and I'm almost always irritated by something similar to the "Wow he still doesn't sleep through the night" winner above. That's usually what compells me to leave a short note of my own, always with the same bit of advice: relax...and surprise, that's my advice again.
That sleep schedule sounds normal. Perfectly normal. The fact that some kids (of all ages) sleep more and some sleep less is totally irrelevant. More sleep for you would always be better, and I like some of Nicole's strategies up there...but seriously, it sounds like you're doing great.
Anonymous I know how it feels not to get sleep. Taite isnt sleeping through the night perfeectly. He has 3 nights. Wooptie...
I also have a two year old who is up early.. so I cant just go back to sleep when Taite naps like I did with my 1st child.
Before this week I was getting up at 3 and 4am feeding Taite.. and having to stay up until 10:30-11:00pm to feed him.
So TRUST me I CAN relate to her. But I was just amazed that so many babies DONT sleep through the night until much later in life... because I did not experience this with Caleb. I am experiencing it to some degree with Taite but I hope he gets better. Anyway. Off I go to put him 2 bed hopefully for the night but u just never know
Hi there! I found your blog through Drea's! I absolutely can relate to what you are going through. My daughter is a little older, 10 months. She slept through the night until around 6 months when she started teething. Now, sleeping is a chore. I recently wrote a post on my blog about this also. I attempted "crying it out" a few times but always went in to get her. Finally, after some encouragemnt from blogger friends, I did it. She fell asleep with in 12 minutes! I couldn't believe it! Let's hope that she keeps up with it! Good luck with whatever you choose. I look forward to reading more of your blog soon.
Honestly... ? If this was my kid's schedule I would run through the streets dancing and singing. My children don't sleep. Neither of them. Never have. I've tried everything. So I have no advice. Only intense feelings of envy.
well your already off to a better start with his schedule than my 10 month old is on her schedule.
She only naps about 30 minutes A DAY! i talked to the doc and he said some babies just dont nap.
and the sleeping through the night, i'm still working on that with my 4 year old.
I know that it will come to him soon as it will with your little one.
I have never been able to let my kids "cry it out" but i have heard that if you are going to do that wait until around 6 months.
Good luck to you with whatever method you choose and keep me updated, if you find something that works i'd love to give it a try!
Oh man! This goes to show that every baby is so different!
I'm sorry that James isn't sleeping through the night yet. I hope he will soon for your sake. It's hilarious to me though that once baby sleeps through the night I find it hard to sleep myself because I'm so worried that something is wrong! CRAZY!
My first baby slept okay (woke up for two-three feedings at night) after the first month until... she started teething (at 4 months old). She hasn't slept good since. She was still waking up once for a bottle when 1 year old (NOT what I wanted). She took beautiful naps in the morning and afternoon until over 1 year old so that I could handle. :) She still doesn't sleep great at night(and she's almost 4 years old).
My second one is only 3 months old. She sleeps good - all night long since almost at birth. BUT she doesn't take long naps. Once in a blue moon will she nap for me - and it's glorious! But everyone comments on her ability to "catnap" - 20 minutes to half an hour.
I would say the first idea from Nicole is a great one. Try to move James' bedtime back by 15-30 minute increments. Smart move - and I REALLY hope that it works for you both!
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